Dads on Inclusive Education: Champions and High Expectations

REA-L Conversations is a family-led podcast about supporting our family members with intellectual or developmental disabilities to live regular, equitable, authentic lives rooted in community, not separate from it.

Through honest conversation and shared learning, families explore what it takes to hold high expectations and build lives woven into the everyday fabric of our neighbourhoods and cities. 

These conversations don't offer polished answers. They offer lived experience, and reminds us that inclusive lives are built with intention, small steps, strong relationships, and persistence.

Stay connected and join us in the conversation

Transcript

Marta 0:01

Welcome to Season two of Real Conversations. I'm Marta Carlucci. If you've been listening to our podcast for a while, you know that real stands for regular, equitable, authentic lives. We are families who are intentionally supporting our family members with an intellectual or developmental disability to live a life held to the same expectations, with the same opportunities and belief in their potential that we would have for anyone else. A life shaped by who the person truly is and valued for what they contribute in their neighborhoods, towns, and cities alongside other citizens. This podcast. Is families talking honestly about the work it takes to move towards this kind of life. The intention, the thinking, the barriers, the relationships, and the small steps that add up over time. Because this work is so much harder in isolation, we need each other and other families with a similar vision learning from one another. As we help to build the lives our family members deserve. Not perfect, not polished, regular, equitable, authentic lives.

1:22

Thanks so much for joining us. In episode two, Pepe, Alex and Dominic continue their conversation. They share what becomes possible when expectations stay high. They talk honestly about navigating systems, finding champions, and why hope grows when we focus on possibility, persistence, and everyday experiences that build a good life for all students. We also wanna send a shout out to all those teachers, educational assistants, administrators who are putting inclusion first and recognizing its benefits for students with and without disabilities. Let's listen in, shall we?

Alex 2:09

I am Alex and I am the father of a kid with a disability.

Pepe 2:16

My name is Peppe and, I have a few years in this journey with a kid with disability that now is in high school. I have a lot of hopes for the future and I'm here to share what happened to me to give a little hope to others.

Domenic 2:32

My name is Dominic. My daughter finished her studies at UBC. She has her own apartment with her roommate, and yeah, there is hope.

Pepe 2:43

we can vent or we can just talk. Yeah. But nothing happened. But, what I want is let's find the useful things that we can use to talk with a teacher, the principal, the vice principal, the resource teacher, the school district, this is the important stuff.

Domenic 3:03

It's interesting how schools are, even today I'm out of the school system now, but it sounds the same to me. I'm just talking for one school that I know of, and it's changed so little in the last, 10 years?

Pepe 3:20

Three weeks ago we went to another meeting at a school. I start talking with a father. He has a child in grade one or grade two. Same conversation that I have almost 10 years ago.

Alex 3:37

Wow.

Pepe 3:38

The father was saying exactly the same about discriminations, the principal in their mind those kids, need to be in special programs. in my experience, we fight for my daughter to be in regular school because that is life. We have to fight and advocate for everything. And again, I found that the person for the. School district is, oh, but you know what? We have this special program, but no, it's not what I want. I know my kid is special in some ways, but because she is at that school with all the students. Now she take the boss by herself two times or three times, she passed the stop and I'm just, dun, I hope she can, she, and she wasn't the boss. And say, Todd, I just pause my stop. But I think having her exposed to this real situation help her to build the character and help her to be more resourceful, I will say. But again, the system and the conversation is something that. 10 years ago, and now this father in grade one, two, I was just telling him, you know what? Go with this guy. You need to ask I'm sure that in five years when I see this guy, things will be, better. But sometimes the system doesn't have memory. The principal, two years, they move. Then we need to start again to ask for resources to build relations. The teachers move, we need to start again. Elementary is done. Now it's high school problem. It's what we are facing talking about this inclusive life and what we want. People do better if they know, but sometimes we need people who is willing to try, willing to do things in more collective way. That is my experience in talking about this story.

Alex 5:53

But I will say it's funny'cause you were saying having to repeat yourself. It's just like the doctor's office or wherever, and you're just like, can't you guys take notes or something.

Domenic 6:02

It's one of those situations where you're having a video camera in all the meetings. You videotape yourself, put it in a time capsule.

Alex 6:09

Yeah.

Domenic 6:10

Then somebody, they say, Hey, bury this capsule from five years ago. Watch it. You'll see the exact same thing that happened. Just follow our lead and hopefully it'll change. It only takes one person that's on board with it. To make the change. Just finding that one person and that's where the challenge is. And then lead to two and two to three. We had one person that I think she understood it

Marta 6:39

one question I have for all of you, based on resources, do you think anything would change if schools, had all the resources possible? Dominic's mentioned systems, so if a school got all the resources financially possible, thrown into that school, do you think it would change anything?

Alex 7:07

It probably would because if we're talking perfect world and the schools or, whatever system, it is, if they have unlimited resources and they're paying living wages and good wages, then you're gonna attract. People that want to do it and have the patience, the joy, what Pepe and Dom have said already few times you get those champions and you'll, you won't just get one, you'll get more because, a lot of the time our kids' population, it's underfunded. So then you, get these awesome people, but then they have to leave because they're like, I can't afford a home, or I can't do this, or I can't do that. if there was a certified ea You're gonna get so many people that want to do it and they can afford to have this job they want and then they're going to, bring that best foot forward. You know what I mean? To problem solve Pepe's story earlier where they'll be like, oh, why did she leave? I wonder, let's go talk to her. Let's figure that out. Oh, it was the tone. Okay. We will lower the tone. if there's unlimited resources, yes. The money will attract people that really, really wanna do it.

Pepe 8:23

I think we have more resources. we can give more solutions. We can be more creative. The main thing for me, my experience, is people make difference with resources or with no resources.

Alex 8:36

Hmm.

Pepe 8:37

Then we have good teachers that they really believe on teaching the next generation. I was a teacher and I have the chance, to give my class to a student that he was always late. He has doing good work, he was a really good athlete and mexico has, I think, 20 or 30 people with, silver medals from the Olympics. this guy was late. If I take this guy with the other people in the room, he will fame my course. And at that time he was good athlete and he was training for the Olympics, but I take the time to ask and yeah. And everybody finished the course in 16 weeks. He took two weeks more. Everybody finished university in four years. He finished in six. and I always think that maybe some of the students that I teach will be Olympic Athletics. the same teachers because Barack Obama went to elementary and the teacher give the education and the teacher, in elementary or high school, they didn't know that Barak will be a president, but that teacher give her some education and some talents and don't some, the formation And we don't know who have the person who are in our circle. And how is the impact? Our actions or our teachings will have in this person. And I think the teachers has that big opportunity to be a role models and examples of all the students because you have a student who need more support and you work and you teach your class. You are not just teaching social science or math. You also are teaching the other 20 or 40 students how to be a good citizen with another citizen who need more support in some areas than you. I think that is the role of the teachers. And we talk about, resources is the training, but also the mentality that the teacher has you are not teaching that student. You are teaching the other 20 fives to be an inclusive person, but if the teacher say, oh, you know what? Forget it. Lost. Cause the other 25 is what they are thinking. But if the teachers tend to start, okay, come and join me. Hey, let's do this, let's do that. I don't know if the 25 will get the example, but at least 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Or my teacher is willing and is a good person because he's giving the extra mile with this person. I will do the same. What I'm thinking is the resources, but also how most of the people we found sometimes it's easy they say, oh yeah, you know what? I have a sister who has a disability. And then they know. Do you understand yeah. Don't worry. I will create the conditions. And I think is what we need to, or if the people who listen, what we are saying for me is, please, you have to be tough the administrative part the people in the school districts, because they always escape. the system made by all civil us September to see what happened. And the IEP will be in October and then it's two months on the school. Then you don't know what is happening. And in October you have the IEP. We will do the implementation of this in November now is December let's check this in January. No. And then when you come back January, oh yeah, we getting that and we preparing the spring break. Oh, let's have the meeting for the IEP from May. In June. The system is just pushing these meetings to the end. Our kids are sitting in the classroom with a teacher who is doing what they think is. Okay.

Alex 13:05

I think we've been lucky.'cause with the IEPs, Mandy's on top of it.

Pepe 13:10

Yeah.

Alex 13:10

To the nth degree. So, it's like as soon as possible. It's almost like she'll ask in August before the school opens.

Pepe 13:17

Yep.

Alex 13:18

Yeah.

Pepe 13:18

my role as a parent. I think parenting is 90% to be present. The other 10% you will do it when you are in the situation,

Domenic 13:26

yeah. If we had all the funding, all the money possible to make this change, the system change everything. One thing we can't change is people's expectations, right?

Alex 13:38

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Domenic 13:39

We change that. Like we have everything in place. To your point, okay, that person will take six years. I'm not gonna waste my time. I'm gonna focus on the 25. You have to focus on six. The expectations have to change also. With anybody. So it's because they have a disability you can't change your mind. They can do a lot. Maybe the person's nonverbal, but they're so smart that're not giving them a chance. They know so much that they don't give'em a chance. There's something stopping the wheels from turning, having all the systems great. The expectations, we gotta change that. And also the biases of these people. they have a disability, not gonna work with them. my mind says trying to figure this out, we can't figure it out. But if you have a movement, maybe that movement will change. Having the movement where one person may work on it and then before he knows, that seems to be working. Let's get two more people it's got all these people, the whole community, whole system, now the expectations are gonna change because they can do more Right? So we have to change the expectation and the bias of the people that are with our children,

Pepe 14:45

agree with you about the expectations

Domenic 14:47

Pepe, you brought it up. There's 25 people in a class and if one's not working well, they'll ignore'em and focus on 24. But they have to focus on everybody no matter what their issues are, their disability or whatever the case may be. People have to understand that we all learn differently. So let's work with it. If you have all the resources and all the funding, we can make it work. And Al to your point, having somebody that has a degree, that's a great starting point. But then like they have to get rid of their bias and their expectations of the child.

Alex 15:20

For sure.

Domenic 15:21

I always felt when my daughter was in school, it would be nice if they had a really outstanding ea in elementary. Then they'd follow'em to high school. They know the daughter for the whole time. But system stops at public school. Get a whole, new person's gotta learn. It would be nice if they met over coffee. Say, Hey, this is what you're gonna expect. Go to high school. she or he knows what they're doing. give'em a chance. Know they're not going to the resource room, they're gonna be mainstream school. So let's see what happens.

Alex 15:54

Yeah. That's a tough one. you often think that it's the familiarity of the person, but then burnout, from dealing with it. You know what I mean? And that's a good point. I can't say that I blame that, but there's gotta be a way where a transition can happen a little more seamlessly.

Domenic 16:11

Exactly.

Alex 16:12

Know,

Domenic 16:12

that's where we're missing the point. High school, public school dropped new person. I was like, who's this person? Why isn't John or Jane with me? And now we've gotta go with Bill or Janet, whatever the name may be. I don't know this person. And then it's going, Patrick, you're fine. IEP starts September. Frequently meet like October. It's like, gimme a break. To Mandy's point, she's great. Phone'em up in August, say, Hey, we're gonna meet September 5th and we're gonna talk about the IEP.

Alex 16:41

Yep.

Domenic 16:41

Why can't that happen? Yeah, I know. I know it's a very busy time of this year,

Alex 16:46

no, I know,

Pepe 16:47

you know it's busy for everybody they know this meeting has to happen. If you know it's your job, it's my job. If my boss say, you have to be in this meeting, I have to be in that meeting. the interpretation of the rules sometimes is getting like, because the rule is, the IEP meeting has to be done in a reasonable time, they say, oh, September we are doing this. We are doing that Everybody, I think the same anxiety that the teachers, have as I want to know how many students I have and who are my students is day one. By day three, you know, your students, you have your agenda, you have your calendar, You know him, you know her, you know what they want. You know the agenda, you know the plan. Okay, now let's do it. But the interpretation of that. we have a really good experience with some teachers, but is the initiative of the teacher is the initiative of the vice principal is the initiative of them. They are really involved from that. some people need to have the rules. Because we have experience with some teachers that they don't, do I need to do that? No, it's here to learn. And your role as a teacher is to teach to give your knowledge. Not just select the, oh, these guys, they listen to me. This is the good students. No, it's for everybody, you know?

Alex 18:12

Yeah. I remember hearing something that, if, professionals or bcs come in and they help and they come up with this great strategy for the teacher to help your child. The teacher can just ignore it. if that's the case, then what's the point

Pepe 18:31

The leader of the program for every kid in the classroom is the teacher. If they have a support worker who need to teach that support worker because that support worker is trained on be a support team, but it is not trained us be in graphy or biology or chemistry. Then who need to do the adaptation as a teacher and the teacher has to lead the support work and say, Hey my friend, this is the expectation and let's say in a state of answer. 10 questions for the exam This person will answer six, Talking with guidance, and we will do an assessment on that. Help me to practice the name of the cellular Okay. Now this is the unit. You have the plan, but the teacher is the leader. Always the teacher is the leader. But of course if the teacher say oh, that check with the support worker and the learning support teacher The teacher for 20 years is giving the same. The same thing, and when he did, or she need to make some adaptations or do some improvement or change. Oh, no. That is it.

19:53

Thanks for being part of Real Conversations. Keep holding high expectations, building real relationships, and keep moving towards regular, equitable, authentic lives. And remember, this work is harder in isolation. Stay connected. We'll see you next time. Bye for now.